Going The Distance - PART ONE

[00:00:01] Scotlands Women is back.

[00:00:04] We all have a story where we've come from, how we've progressed,

[00:00:08] what successes we've had, women's support in other women and brilliant things happen.

[00:00:13] There's been this expectation that a woman's got to fit into so many categories

[00:00:17] that we never spend enough time maybe focusing on our happiness

[00:00:21] and whatever I want to be and whatever kind of makes me happy.

[00:00:25] You've got an intuition that's a-shricking

[00:00:27] and it's telling you something's wrong, something is wrong.

[00:00:31] It's the worst thing ever to consider narcissistic abuse and emotional abuse,

[00:00:34] psychological abuse, emotional abuse as they call this, don't at all accuse.

[00:00:37] Listen to your board and leech out for help.

[00:00:39] Why do you feel that it's important for women to keep fighting

[00:00:44] and keep fighting for their rights?

[00:00:46] I think if we don't fight for our rights, we can be taken away.

[00:00:50] It's better for us to be proactive rather than wait until we end up in a situation

[00:00:55] that a lot of people in America would have just never really seen me

[00:00:57] lose their access and then they're trying to quote back.

[00:01:00] I learned from Leitha that I needed myself more than I needed anybody else.

[00:01:08] And as you feel my mindset today, we remove anything that doesn't support

[00:01:13] the woman I am becoming, Scotland's women, our lives, our stories.

[00:01:20] Now let's get on with the show.

[00:01:36] Hey, Kirsty. How's it going?

[00:01:39] I'm alright, how are you?

[00:01:40] Yeah, thank you so much for coming on.

[00:01:42] Which one of your flights?

[00:01:44] So I stupidly raced at the weekend.

[00:01:46] I know better than to race with a respiratory infection,

[00:01:49] but obviously all that goes out the window when you travel up to the

[00:01:51] and go, but I just really want to race.

[00:01:53] So yeah, I don't think jumping in a lock in Scotland in our lovely summer

[00:01:57] when you have a respiratory issue is a good idea.

[00:02:00] So this is the result of that.

[00:02:02] You've got your secondary voice on so that will...

[00:02:04] Yeah, I feel like Phoebe, I should start singing or something now.

[00:02:08] Oh, look at that.

[00:02:10] So would you mind just for the listeners, could you please introduce yourself

[00:02:14] and where you're based at all?

[00:02:16] I'm Kirsty O'Brien, previously, Kirsty Anderson.

[00:02:19] And I always kind of say that because don't you feel like after you get

[00:02:22] managed you lose your identity away but when you change your name.

[00:02:25] So yeah.

[00:02:25] I didn't change my name.

[00:02:27] Yeah, see I'm starting to wish I hadn't.

[00:02:29] I'm too lazy.

[00:02:32] It was a pain like the amount of things that you have to do when you change

[00:02:35] your name, but it was always for me because I wanted my stepchildren

[00:02:38] to have the same last name as me.

[00:02:40] Oh, right.

[00:02:40] I was like, okay, I'm going to change to O'Brien.

[00:02:42] But now I'm getting older.

[00:02:43] I'm like, why did I do that?

[00:02:44] It's such a pain.

[00:02:45] And then it's like all my kind of everything that I did is Anderson

[00:02:49] just seems to be wiped out.

[00:02:50] Do you know what I mean?

[00:02:51] Like all my career before that, all my racing career before that

[00:02:53] doesn't exist anymore.

[00:02:55] It's just...

[00:02:56] So Kirsty O'Brien previously Anderson is having just my name.

[00:03:00] I'm doing myself now.

[00:03:01] So yeah, so based in Glasgow work at the college teach psychology

[00:03:05] and the social science department and do a try out for me from there.

[00:03:10] You've been doing try out for 17 years, but obviously I've known

[00:03:14] you previously.

[00:03:15] We went to high school killer.

[00:03:17] You were always heavily into swimming, but you had stopped

[00:03:20] for a while.

[00:03:21] Yeah.

[00:03:22] And then we leave school.

[00:03:23] We didn't mean to lose touch.

[00:03:25] And I remember we went on holiday with the girls for a weekend

[00:03:30] and just so bit, so muscular.

[00:03:34] And I just saw a big transformation in you.

[00:03:36] Where did it come from?

[00:03:37] This love because you never ever had a love with of it when

[00:03:41] we were younger.

[00:03:43] Like really.

[00:03:44] I think what you're politely not saying is you were a heavy

[00:03:48] smoke or heavy drinker and hugely overweight, Kirsty.

[00:03:51] And then when I remember you from Max's.

[00:03:52] No, I didn't say that.

[00:03:55] No, but that less face of that is the facts.

[00:03:58] Right?

[00:03:59] Yeah.

[00:03:59] I was much more interested in smoking and drinking and eating

[00:04:02] anything that wasn't healthy.

[00:04:03] I was thinking about this other day.

[00:04:05] I remember I used to go to Chippy and get a chip roll covered

[00:04:08] and Edinburgh Chippy sauce and then go for your McDonald's

[00:04:11] and get McDonald's and then wash that down with a bottle

[00:04:14] of Meridoun cider or a bird and 20 bags.

[00:04:17] So yeah, definitely a bit different.

[00:04:19] I was there too, you know, I'm taking responsibility,

[00:04:23] but I feel, you know, you share that responsibility with me

[00:04:27] to a degree.

[00:04:30] To be honest, I don't really know what changed.

[00:04:32] We did start things pretty young, right?

[00:04:34] And I think, you know, I started smoking when I was 12,

[00:04:38] drinking around about the same age as well.

[00:04:40] Luckily my parents aren't alive to hear that.

[00:04:42] And not looking after myself from a young age.

[00:04:44] And I think there was a certain element of just getting

[00:04:48] fed up with that, to be honest and just feeling like

[00:04:50] there was kind of more to life than waking up with a hangover

[00:04:54] Sunday afternoon and not being able to kind of move.

[00:04:58] But I think there was an element as well of,

[00:05:00] obviously, you know, my parents both had terminal illnesses

[00:05:03] and both passed away when I was quite young.

[00:05:05] And I think part of that made me think about

[00:05:08] this or what we were talking about earlier, health

[00:05:10] and your body's what you put into it,

[00:05:13] your health is what you put into it.

[00:05:14] And swimming had always been an outlet for me for stress

[00:05:17] and things like that.

[00:05:18] But also it was a good thing when I was younger

[00:05:20] for me to think about your body is something

[00:05:22] that you have to look after,

[00:05:23] and then you've got fuel properly,

[00:05:25] you've got to make sure you're doing all the right stuff.

[00:05:27] So I think when I, it was most of the minute,

[00:05:31] I decided I wanted to stop smoking.

[00:05:32] I thought I'm going to have to do something else

[00:05:34] and I'm going to have to really start thinking about

[00:05:37] me and about control.

[00:05:40] And I do think as a psychologist,

[00:05:42] I don't really believe it exists an addictive personality,

[00:05:44] but I do think I have quite addictive tendencies.

[00:05:47] And you know, if I smoked, I would smoke for a day.

[00:05:50] If I drank, I would drink loads and loads.

[00:05:52] If I knew if I was coming off of that,

[00:05:54] then I would need to do something that was healthier

[00:05:57] for my body, if you like.

[00:05:58] So I do remember the first time I went to the gym

[00:06:01] when I had them, I was wearing a patch on my arm,

[00:06:04] like a nicotine patch on my arm

[00:06:06] and a puke on the treadmill

[00:06:07] because I didn't realise I was like smoking 20 facts

[00:06:10] while people were running.

[00:06:11] Like this whole thing falling all over the treadmill.

[00:06:15] One of my first attempts.

[00:06:17] But yeah, I think there was maybe an element

[00:06:20] of just realising that I had to start

[00:06:22] maybe looking after myself,

[00:06:23] that you can't really just go through life

[00:06:26] doing what I was doing and expect not to get ill

[00:06:29] along the way.

[00:06:30] So yeah, I think that was part of it.

[00:06:32] But it was the thing that was like,

[00:06:33] I took it up sort of my last year at uni

[00:06:35] and then when I was getting into my kind of

[00:06:37] masters degree year,

[00:06:39] I think it was a bit of stress relief as well.

[00:06:41] I was working three jobs trying to do the masters degree

[00:06:44] at the time, still trying to look after mum and dad as well.

[00:06:46] So I needed an outlet for that.

[00:06:49] I started swimming again

[00:06:50] and then the pool, the tiles and the pool broke.

[00:06:53] So I needed something else

[00:06:54] because that was going to be shut for months.

[00:06:56] So I started running

[00:06:57] and then that seemed like an even better stress relief

[00:07:01] because you get obviously more endorphins

[00:07:03] when you're running.

[00:07:04] How did running at this point

[00:07:07] help you?

[00:07:08] There was a bit of me that went

[00:07:09] why have I not been doing this all the time?

[00:07:11] Do you know what I mean?

[00:07:11] Don't get me wrong.

[00:07:12] See when you first start running,

[00:07:14] it's horrendous.

[00:07:15] Your body doesn't want to do it.

[00:07:18] For the first few while, I really wasn't enjoying it

[00:07:20] and really wasn't kind of into it.

[00:07:22] And I think that puts a lot of people off

[00:07:24] when they first start running

[00:07:25] as they think there's going to be that bit

[00:07:26] that they're like, oh yeah, this is amazing.

[00:07:29] And it's not like that at first,

[00:07:31] especially for a swimmer

[00:07:32] because without getting into

[00:07:35] the kind of biomechanics of the sport,

[00:07:38] the way you move in the pool

[00:07:39] is completely different from the way you run

[00:07:40] and when you run, you need to keep your hips

[00:07:43] completely pointing forward and solid.

[00:07:45] When you swim, they're rotating all the time.

[00:07:47] So I run like that.

[00:07:48] You know, when I still run like that,

[00:07:49] you can still see me miles away.

[00:07:52] Tam knows it's me.

[00:07:53] My husband knows it's me coming

[00:07:55] because of the weird way I run.

[00:07:57] So yeah, it was a bit at first

[00:07:59] like just persevering.

[00:08:01] And then yeah, I think there was that day

[00:08:03] when all of a sudden I could run

[00:08:05] and I was getting faster

[00:08:06] and I was feeling more me.

[00:08:08] There's a kind of, as long as I can explain it,

[00:08:11] it's the same with open water swimming.

[00:08:12] There's this sort of almost like

[00:08:15] mindfulness that goes along with it

[00:08:17] where you can just completely focus on

[00:08:19] something else that takes you

[00:08:22] completely out of everything else.

[00:08:23] So if you're really stressed or something,

[00:08:25] you go and you run and you think about it

[00:08:27] and then it kind of disappears

[00:08:28] and you start noticing things around about you

[00:08:31] and you start noticing your body feeling good

[00:08:33] and you come back

[00:08:35] and everything just doesn't seem as bad

[00:08:36] as it was when you first went out.

[00:08:38] It was definitely a realization

[00:08:39] that this is actually really good for me.

[00:08:42] This actually makes me feel more in control

[00:08:45] and more because there's an element of strength

[00:08:47] that goes along with running

[00:08:48] that there's maybe not as much of that in swimming.

[00:08:51] It's feeling strong, it's feeling powerful

[00:08:53] so that you come back and go,

[00:08:55] right, I can do this shit.

[00:08:56] Let's go for it.

[00:08:57] You know, I will throw something at me.

[00:08:59] I'm okay with it now.

[00:09:00] So yeah, I think that was the kind

[00:09:02] of big appeal for running with me

[00:09:03] was just feeling stronger and feeling like

[00:09:05] I can take myself away and just think about things

[00:09:09] and be in my own head

[00:09:11] and then also take myself out of that as well

[00:09:14] and kind of look at stuff around about me

[00:09:16] and just realize that actually what I'm worrying about

[00:09:18] is maybe not that big a deal.

[00:09:20] You mentioned control

[00:09:21] and you were taking care of your parents at this point

[00:09:25] and there were a lot of health problems.

[00:09:28] How did that control help you

[00:09:30] in your personal life at that point?

[00:09:33] Do you know, it's something

[00:09:34] I still reflect on nowadays.

[00:09:35] I think obviously, I mean, you know yourself

[00:09:37] with your own experiences,

[00:09:38] you go back and you think about those times

[00:09:40] and you think about

[00:09:42] was there more I could have done to help them?

[00:09:43] Was there times when I wasn't as sympathetic

[00:09:46] as I could have been or times when I pissed them off

[00:09:50] when I shouldn't have pissed them off

[00:09:51] and things like that.

[00:09:52] So I do kind of think about this quite a lot

[00:09:54] and I suppose being a psychologist

[00:09:55] and being a psychology lecturer

[00:09:57] and seeing students go through similar things

[00:09:59] that I went through at that time

[00:10:00] and I do kind of think about

[00:10:03] what helped me cope with that

[00:10:07] what kind of got me through it

[00:10:08] and I think one of the things we're running

[00:10:10] is it puts things in perspective.

[00:10:13] So I was having a bad day.

[00:10:14] I was struggling,

[00:10:16] I was finding it difficult to see my parents like that

[00:10:18] but I wasn't having as bad a day as they were.

[00:10:20] Like they were terrified,

[00:10:22] they were going through the pain.

[00:10:24] They were, as you say, very unwell

[00:10:28] facing the fact that they didn't have

[00:10:29] a very long life to live.

[00:10:30] So yeah, that was horrible for me

[00:10:32] but it's even worse for them.

[00:10:35] I think it's about, for me

[00:10:37] it was about being able to put myself in there

[00:10:39] take their perspective on it

[00:10:41] and be like right okay so I'm going to go away

[00:10:43] and I'm going to deal with my shit

[00:10:44] and I'm going to run off my anger

[00:10:46] because there's a lot of anger goes around

[00:10:48] that sort of emotion.

[00:10:50] It's not just sadness when you're dealing with that situation.

[00:10:53] It's anger and it's bitterness

[00:10:54] and it's frustration

[00:10:55] because you kind of feel like

[00:10:56] why the hell is it us in this situation?

[00:10:59] Why are we having a cope with this?

[00:11:01] So I think going out and running

[00:11:02] and getting rid of a lot of that

[00:11:04] meant that I could come back

[00:11:05] and be in a more positive place

[00:11:07] and be like okay,

[00:11:08] my shit doesn't matter now

[00:11:09] because I've got to help them deal with theirs.

[00:11:13] You know my parents,

[00:11:14] they were reciprocal to that as well.

[00:11:16] They always kind of tried to make sure

[00:11:17] I was okay too so I think it kind of helped that way.

[00:11:20] It just gave me that perspective rather

[00:11:24] I went through a few years without it

[00:11:25] and I'm really into sort of humanistic school of psychology

[00:11:28] which borrows a lot from Buddhism

[00:11:29] but Buddhism talks about self-cherishing

[00:11:32] and how when you self-cherish

[00:11:33] and you become selfish

[00:11:34] that then creates this situation

[00:11:37] where you have all these sort of negative selfish emotions

[00:11:39] and I think running helps with that.

[00:11:42] I think it gives you that time

[00:11:43] to almost meditate on what you're going through

[00:11:47] and then to realise,

[00:11:49] you know I'm self-cherishing here

[00:11:50] I'm thinking about myself

[00:11:51] when actually I should be taking people's perspective

[00:11:54] so I think it kind of allows for that

[00:11:56] and then just some days when you're really angry

[00:11:58] it just runs the anger right out of you.

[00:12:01] By the time you come back you're so exhausted

[00:12:03] you can't be angry.

[00:12:04] Does it make you feel more in like present

[00:12:08] when you're running?

[00:12:10] Definitely because you've got to focus like

[00:12:15] I mean obviously depends what kind of run you're doing

[00:12:17] if you're doing a hard session

[00:12:18] if you're just going out

[00:12:19] for a kind of long easy run or whatever

[00:12:21] but definitely you've got to focus on your breathing

[00:12:23] you've got to focus on your form

[00:12:25] you've got to focus on the pain of running sometimes

[00:12:28] so it definitely brings you into the kind of present more

[00:12:31] and obviously that's what mindfulness is all about

[00:12:33] is about trying to be in the present.

[00:12:35] It's one of those things that you can

[00:12:37] in that moment you can do anything about the past

[00:12:40] you can't do anything about the future

[00:12:41] so you have to just deal with the present

[00:12:43] and if you can sort of then overlap that

[00:12:45] into your everyday life

[00:12:47] then it's definitely

[00:12:48] it's something that helped me feel more in control

[00:12:50] and also just knowing that you can do that

[00:12:54] makes you think well do you know what

[00:12:56] I'm maybe a bit stronger than I think I am

[00:12:58] I'm physically so I can be emotionally able as well.

[00:13:03] What is a triathlon?

[00:13:04] Triathlon is essentially a spin bike run

[00:13:05] but although we do kind of variations in multi sport

[00:13:08] so we also do aquaflon which is just a spin run

[00:13:12] and we do duathlon which is a run bike run as well

[00:13:16] So why do all this?

[00:13:19] What means you do this?

[00:13:21] It's like you're talking about swimming

[00:13:22] and you're talking about running

[00:13:23] and you're like yeah I'll just add a bike in there as well

[00:13:26] Like what was the attraction of it?

[00:13:29] You know to me I'm like it scares me

[00:13:32] But see and I think that's the thing right

[00:13:34] I think people think triathlon is skater than it is right

[00:13:37] like honestly again Kirsten you remember

[00:13:40] the nick of me at the end of high school

[00:13:41] okay I had to swam but I was a heavy smoker

[00:13:44] a heavy drinker hugely overweight

[00:13:46] if I can do it and get fit anybody can

[00:13:49] I think this is a lot of triathlon puts people off a lot of the time

[00:13:52] especially the open water swimming

[00:13:53] and yeah I was lucky in that sense that

[00:13:55] obviously I have some family who live in Spain

[00:13:57] so I'd spent a lot of time open water swimming as a kid

[00:14:00] and things like that so I was kind of luckier there

[00:14:03] but the thing with triathlon is there's different distances

[00:14:04] you can do so like at the weekend there

[00:14:06] I was just doing a sprint distance so that's

[00:14:08] a 750m swim, a 20k by going to 5k run

[00:14:14] in a few weeks time I've got a half Ironman

[00:14:16] which is 1900m

[00:14:18] and 90k bike and a half manathan at the end of it

[00:14:21] and then you can do the full Ironman but I just don't fancy that

[00:14:23] and then there's like the Olympic distances in between that

[00:14:26] and then there's shorter distances there's different variations

[00:14:29] and triathlon has been really good since when I first started

[00:14:32] there was like you did sprint Olympic distance

[00:14:35] middle distance or full Ironman

[00:14:36] now they've added these animals and other things

[00:14:38] to try and make it more accessible to people

[00:14:40] and try making it more accessible to audiences

[00:14:43] Honestly I wish I could have this thing

[00:14:45] where I was like I just knew triathlon was for me

[00:14:47] but totally as I was saying before

[00:14:50] I took up running just because the pool broke

[00:14:52] and then when I was running obviously

[00:14:55] because I was still quite overweight at the time

[00:14:57] and I hadn't done a lot of suffering

[00:14:58] like strength and things like that

[00:15:00] so I started getting a lot of injuries

[00:15:02] and eventually I went to see a physio

[00:15:04] and she was like oh well you could cross train

[00:15:07] what about cycling and that was just kind of

[00:15:09] where it came from and then

[00:15:10] my first triathlon someone has just sort of mentioned to me

[00:15:13] that oh you're swimming biking

[00:15:14] and running and you're a good swimmer

[00:15:16] I think with triathlon because the swimming

[00:15:17] is a bit that puts people off the most

[00:15:19] I had that kind of advantage that it was like

[00:15:21] well you're a good swimmer so

[00:15:23] why don't you do a triathlon

[00:15:24] I remember sitting on my computer at work

[00:15:27] looking up and I couldn't really see any in Scotland

[00:15:28] but I saw one down in Chester randomly

[00:15:32] and myself and Katie and my sister

[00:15:34] went down for the full weekend

[00:15:36] and I remember like rocking up

[00:15:38] and being like also can you wear

[00:15:40] because when you come out of the water

[00:15:41] you've got a run transition to take off your wetsuit

[00:15:44] and get on your bike

[00:15:45] and I was like oh well it's all on concrete

[00:15:47] can you wear like socks and stuff

[00:15:49] and they were just like no that's not

[00:15:52] you can't do that and I was like alright

[00:15:54] okay and then I remember I had

[00:15:55] my dad's priest's bike

[00:15:58] because I did a racing bike

[00:16:00] and anything so I just borrowed that

[00:16:02] and it was like far too big for me

[00:16:04] I went the wrong way on the bike course

[00:16:06] because I couldn't hear what the

[00:16:07] woman was saying to me that was the first one I did

[00:16:09] and I think I did it in

[00:16:11] two and a half hours it was an Olympic distance

[00:16:14] it's like 1500m swim

[00:16:16] 40km bike and a 10km run

[00:16:18] How did you feel afterwards

[00:16:19] did you ever feel oh I'm not doing that again

[00:16:22] I'm not putting myself through that again

[00:16:24] Not total opposite sea which I have on nothing ever goes right

[00:16:26] but you never get the perfect race

[00:16:28] so the minute you finish you thinking about

[00:16:30] what you would do differently the next time

[00:16:32] that's what it was like for me it wasn't even

[00:16:33] it wasn't even a moment of I've just done a

[00:16:36] triathlon it was a moment of oh I went

[00:16:37] the wrong way on the bike and I did this and I did that

[00:16:39] just total opposite for me it was just like oh I want to do

[00:16:41] that again and I want to do this differently

[00:16:43] a few weeks later I managed to get a place in the London

[00:16:46] triathlon and went down and did that

[00:16:48] and I think I had a different

[00:16:50] I didn't have the priest's bike that time

[00:16:51] I had a different bike the second time

[00:16:53] and it was much better and then

[00:16:55] I think yeah it just became

[00:16:58] an addiction and a wee

[00:17:00] almost after that not addicted to

[00:17:03] the training

[00:17:04] in a wee bit that they just trying to

[00:17:06] find that way of

[00:17:08] having a perfect race but after 17 years

[00:17:10] I realised that just doesn't happen

[00:17:12] you never and I think that's why

[00:17:14] it keeps you interested because there's so much

[00:17:16] room for error I've crashed

[00:17:18] and broken a tailbone during a race

[00:17:20] I've had a puncture got stuck

[00:17:22] in my wetsuit I've fallen flat

[00:17:24] on my face trying to get out my wetsuit

[00:17:26] it's just so many that I got

[00:17:28] stuck behind the camper van for

[00:17:30] a year of 20

[00:17:31] key ones just like

[00:17:34] reaching behind this

[00:17:35] that would people

[00:17:38] were like right in through immediately

[00:17:40] full commitment was it

[00:17:41] gave you some sort of buzz though

[00:17:43] and it's like a talent

[00:17:45] giving me a buzz yeah I know now that

[00:17:47] two and a half hours is like a bar that

[00:17:49] people try to set to get to

[00:17:50] I got that on my kind of first one

[00:17:52] and people were saying to me oh that's really good

[00:17:54] and I was like alright okay cool

[00:17:55] there was a kind of thing that

[00:17:57] this could be something I'm quite good at

[00:17:58] I'm not the best woman I'm not the best biker

[00:18:00] I'm not the best runner but if you put the three of them together

[00:18:03] I'm alright there is definitely

[00:18:05] that competitive aspect of it

[00:18:07] where I thought I could be okay at this

[00:18:08] I could enjoy this I think more than anything

[00:18:11] I also try to assume because there's a three sports

[00:18:13] and half hour a man is my

[00:18:15] kind of main distance now you get older

[00:18:17] so you go longer because you lose your speed

[00:18:18] you have to kind of do the long stuff

[00:18:20] I think for me it's more just

[00:18:24] we talk a lot about

[00:18:25] do you race to train or train to race

[00:18:27] I definitely train to race I love the

[00:18:29] training the race is icing on the cake

[00:18:31] it's the chocolate sprinkles but

[00:18:32] I love the training aspect of it

[00:18:34] I love getting up in the morning and going for a run

[00:18:36] and then on my lunch break going for a swim

[00:18:38] and then maybe biking that night

[00:18:40] that's my routine and that's what I love

[00:18:42] and I love pushing myself in training so I think

[00:18:44] the biggest thing for me which I have thrown is that

[00:18:46] variety of stuff you can do as well

[00:18:48] push yourself in different ways like you can go

[00:18:50] really hard on a run on a Tuesday

[00:18:52] morning and then get in the pool four hours later

[00:18:55] it just allows you to train in a way

[00:18:56] I think that no other sport does and that's

[00:18:58] the buzz that being able to challenge yourself

[00:19:00] and that's so healthy

[00:19:02] and it's just your time which

[00:19:04] said you don't need to think about anything

[00:19:07] and why do you think

[00:19:09] that's important to have that in your life

[00:19:11] I think it's important as a person

[00:19:14] in general but I think it's important

[00:19:15] as a woman in particular

[00:19:16] and people ask me

[00:19:19] about the kind of women's sport that I think a lot of the time

[00:19:20] in September there I got made a captain

[00:19:22] of campus Lang Harriers running club

[00:19:25] I'm the first female captain in 75 years

[00:19:27] right and I say that with pride

[00:19:29] and then I think Jesus 75 years

[00:19:30] how is it taking us this long to have a female captain

[00:19:33] and then I think back to when I first started

[00:19:35] at the club and

[00:19:37] 2012

[00:19:39] we didn't even have a women's changing

[00:19:41] room at that point because we didn't have

[00:19:43] enough female athletes where as now

[00:19:45] we thought I know

[00:19:46] I know how is that

[00:19:50] crazy

[00:19:51] crazy

[00:19:52] whereas now we're fielding loads of women's teams

[00:19:54] our women's teams are doing brilliant they're bringing back

[00:19:56] medals and we've got a real bread and

[00:19:58] the talent of women at the club now

[00:20:00] but even

[00:20:02] so a few years ago across country

[00:20:04] the women used to run 8K and the men

[00:20:06] used to run 12K we weren't allowed to run

[00:20:08] the same distance as men and it was just like

[00:20:11] whoa we can run a

[00:20:12] yeah we can run a man since

[00:20:14] the what because it's on grass all of a sudden

[00:20:16] we can't run I mean I'm not going to try and do it with heels right

[00:20:18] I'm going to do it

[00:20:20] in spikes and in the mud the same as everyone else

[00:20:22] so a lot of some women

[00:20:24] protested one year and did

[00:20:26] R8 key and then ran the men to 12K

[00:20:28] at the back as well and was like I've just managed 20

[00:20:30] key and then eventually in

[00:20:32] Scotland he changed it and all men and women

[00:20:34] now run 10K

[00:20:35] I still think they should have made it 12K but

[00:20:38] all men and women now run the same distance it's not

[00:20:40] the same throughout the whole of the UK

[00:20:41] and worldwide and I just

[00:20:43] I think as women

[00:20:45] our careers a lot being judged

[00:20:47] in our sport a lot being judged

[00:20:49] that maybe puts a lot of women

[00:20:51] awe sport and it makes

[00:20:53] us kind of think why would I put myself

[00:20:55] in that kind of

[00:20:58] forum where I'm there

[00:20:59] and people are watching me and I'm going to be judged

[00:21:02] the way I look I'm going to be judged

[00:21:03] for how I perform

[00:21:05] I'm going to be judged compared to a man and that

[00:21:07] is still a thing you know John

[00:21:09] Inverdale is the most famous tennis commentators

[00:21:12] for it I don't know

[00:21:13] who was the tennis player a few years ago

[00:21:15] she was playing and he said his line was

[00:21:17] I don't know if her dad said to her at some point

[00:21:19] you're not much of a looker so

[00:21:20] you should get better at tennis and forgot

[00:21:23] that Serena and Venus Williams existed

[00:21:25] and Andy Murray had to remind them

[00:21:27] that they're women and they're people

[00:21:29] and they have won Olympic medals

[00:21:31] as well and I think

[00:21:33] for that reason a lot of

[00:21:35] women maybe don't take up sport

[00:21:37] and don't get involved in it

[00:21:38] and we've got to change the thinking about that

[00:21:41] you're not doing it for other people

[00:21:43] you're not doing it

[00:21:44] for recognition

[00:21:47] from other people yeah that's nice

[00:21:49] sometimes and if you're doing well

[00:21:51] and if you're winning and you're getting that sort of recognition

[00:21:53] that's great but the same people

[00:21:55] that give you the recognition when you're winning

[00:21:56] are the same people that are going to kick you when you're down

[00:21:58] but you're not doing it for them

[00:22:00] you're doing it for you and you're doing it

[00:22:02] for your own challenge and that's so important

[00:22:05] for all athletes but

[00:22:06] for women in particular because we're still

[00:22:09] being judged on a daily basis

[00:22:12] in ways that

[00:22:12] we are unfairly judged compared to men

[00:22:15] as a social scientist

[00:22:17] I think the two worst things is capitalism

[00:22:19] and gender inequality

[00:22:20] but that is the thing

[00:22:22] constantly we're under the microscope

[00:22:25] we're under the lens and we're being

[00:22:27] you know

[00:22:29] put into categories and

[00:22:31] expected to behave in certain ways

[00:22:32] for me it's my way of

[00:22:34] taking that control but I can do what I want to do

[00:22:37] and fuck it I don't care

[00:22:38] what other people think I don't care

[00:22:40] if I'm doing well and I'm getting that recognition fine

[00:22:42] but I know fine well that

[00:22:44] you're going to be spitting about me behind my back too

[00:22:46] so I'm doing it for me

[00:22:48] I'm not doing it for anyone else I think that's important

[00:22:50] to have that in your training as well and just have time

[00:22:53] where you can kind of just go and be

[00:22:55] you for a period of time and

[00:22:56] forget about everything else

[00:22:59] what would be your advice

[00:23:00] to women who are

[00:23:03] any point in their life

[00:23:05] any age at this point

[00:23:07] as you said

[00:23:08] looking to challenge themselves

[00:23:10] and getting to any sport

[00:23:12] what would be your advice to them

[00:23:15] definitely pick something you love

[00:23:16] and go with that it's something that makes you happy

[00:23:18] because you're not going to keep something up if it doesn't make you happy

[00:23:21] I love swimming I love biking

[00:23:23] I have a love-hate relationship

[00:23:24] but I love it when I'm running well

[00:23:27] that's why training is not

[00:23:28] training for me it's just

[00:23:30] what I love to do

[00:23:31] so I would say definitely pick something you love

[00:23:34] but don't feel the pressure to do

[00:23:36] something with other people

[00:23:38] if you don't want to don't feel the pressure to

[00:23:40] do things that other people want you to

[00:23:42] it's about you finding your thing

[00:23:44] and kind of doing

[00:23:45] you know if that is

[00:23:47] going dance and then

[00:23:49] I can't dance right

[00:23:51] you know that Kirsten I

[00:23:52] have no coordination whatsoever I cannot dance

[00:23:56] right so but if that's your thing

[00:23:58] you go and do that

[00:23:59] and if football is your thing you go and do that

[00:24:01] don't be worried about the way you look

[00:24:04] to other people about the way other people are

[00:24:06] going to think about you

[00:24:06] particularly if it's in a sport that's not really seen as

[00:24:09] being a female sport

[00:24:11] or you know

[00:24:13] obviously I'm 41 now right

[00:24:15] I'm not a spring chicken anymore

[00:24:17] I'm competing

[00:24:18] at the weekend I was competing about people

[00:24:22] against people who were like 17

[00:24:24] 18 19 and I think

[00:24:26] you've got to

[00:24:27] not worry about your age either

[00:24:30] the whole thing about sport is it's about giving your body

[00:24:32] an outlet

[00:24:33] it's about giving your body something that's good for it

[00:24:35] so I don't care if that's a young body

[00:24:38] a body like mine who has gone through perimenopause

[00:24:40] and is crazy all the time

[00:24:42] it's what is going to be best

[00:24:44] for you and what you feel your body needs

[00:24:46] and kind of listen to your body with that

[00:24:48] I suppose on this

[00:24:49] the other things I would say

[00:24:52] is you will get

[00:24:55] you will experience some level

[00:24:57] of sex as a me will experience some

[00:25:00] level of judgement

[00:25:01] when I first came to triathlon I came across a word

[00:25:03] chicked for the first time

[00:25:05] people kept saying oh you chicked it's when

[00:25:06] if I beat a guy in the race I chicked him

[00:25:11] isn't like a baby chicked

[00:25:14] that's my chick

[00:25:15] in Greece when they were talking about my

[00:25:17] chicked it was my bird

[00:25:19] right so if I

[00:25:21] beat a guy then I chicked them

[00:25:22] so it was like quite a shameful thing for a guy

[00:25:25] to get chicked

[00:25:26] it was the first time I come across that

[00:25:28] office a vagina ran past him

[00:25:30] exactly exactly a vagina

[00:25:32] happened to be there so what happened

[00:25:34] what would they call it if a man ran

[00:25:37] past a woman then

[00:25:38] oh nothing there's not a word for that because that's just expected to happen

[00:25:41] so it's you get

[00:25:42] chicked because you don't expect that to happen

[00:25:45] you don't expect women to be faster

[00:25:47] so that was the first time I come across

[00:25:49] that that makes you feel

[00:25:52] was it a guy that mentioned this to you

[00:25:54] it was like oh you chicked me today

[00:25:57] I was like I'm sorry I did what

[00:25:59] did something of it

[00:26:01] being accused of doing something I'd like to know what the fuck it means

[00:26:03] and it was like

[00:26:04] did you respond?

[00:26:06] it was what you mean as a spam faster or a bike faster

[00:26:08] or ran faster than you

[00:26:09] and he was like yeah and I was like

[00:26:13] okay word's your point mate

[00:26:14] and it was just it was a very

[00:26:17] strange experience for me I was like

[00:26:19] why is this why is this a thing

[00:26:21] if you're a ram past me

[00:26:22] it wouldn't even be mentioned in that

[00:26:25] forum it's just an athlete being an athlete

[00:26:26] so why because I'm a female

[00:26:28] is that a thing that I

[00:26:30] chicked you like do you know I mean

[00:26:32] I ended up in the top 20 so I chicked

[00:26:35] 150 other guys

[00:26:36] none of them are coming up saying I've chicked them so

[00:26:38] so what should issue here

[00:26:40] and I think you are going to experience

[00:26:42] that and you are going to experience level of

[00:26:45] sexism and a level of judgment

[00:26:46] and a level of judgment about

[00:26:48] I mean obviously you mentioned

[00:26:51] after not seeing me for a long time

[00:26:53] you kind of realised how muscular I was

[00:26:55] you get assumptions

[00:26:56] about that as well you know and people kind of

[00:26:59] question your life choices let's just

[00:27:01] say based upon the fact that you're muscular

[00:27:03] so you will get an element of that

[00:27:04] what do you mean your sexuality?

[00:27:07] yes based upon

[00:27:08] the fact that I'm muscular

[00:27:10] and it's just like well

[00:27:11] feeling good I wish I had muscles

[00:27:14] like that

[00:27:15] do you know one of the best things though

[00:27:17] about training in a university gym

[00:27:20] is there's this new kind of

[00:27:22] wave of young women who are

[00:27:24] going in who are lifting weights

[00:27:25] who are lifting heavy who don't give a

[00:27:28] shit anymore about looking pretty

[00:27:30] or looking thin they just

[00:27:32] want to be strong and they just want to be powerful

[00:27:34] and I absolutely love it

[00:27:36] it's like the shift in attitude

[00:27:38] away from I've got to be this

[00:27:40] petite pretty little feminine

[00:27:41] I don't even know where that comes

[00:27:44] honestly

[00:27:46] it's what you feel

[00:27:48] how you want your body

[00:27:50] how you want your body to be

[00:27:52] exactly how you feel within your body

[00:27:53] do you know if you want to be slim

[00:27:55] and pretty and that's absolutely fine

[00:27:57] if you want to be strong and powerful

[00:27:59] that's absolutely fine too

[00:28:01] and I just think women have been

[00:28:03] put off sport for a really long time

[00:28:05] because all the words that go along

[00:28:07] with being good at sport is

[00:28:09] aggressive, muscular, sweaty

[00:28:11] all these things that aren't really

[00:28:13] synonymous with femininity

[00:28:16] whereas now

[00:28:18] there's a there is a shift

[00:28:19] away from that and I do see a lot

[00:28:21] of young women coming through just being like yeah I sweat

[00:28:23] yeah I'm on my period and I'm lifting

[00:28:25] but I'm going to be powerful

[00:28:27] and look at me throw this weight over my head

[00:28:29] and I love it

[00:28:30] I honestly hate you

[00:28:34] very good because I don't know what

[00:28:36] this is about

[00:28:38] I can see that

[00:28:39] so I feel really strong and then some of these

[00:28:41] 18 year olds come and throw this weight over their head

[00:28:43] and I'm just like oh he's more than me

[00:28:45] how are you doing

[00:28:47] but it's amazing to see

[00:28:49] I love it, I hope it's a kind of attitude

[00:28:51] but yeah to go back to

[00:28:53] your original question my advice would be

[00:28:55] do what you love and just don't give a shit

[00:28:57] what anyone else says or thinks

[00:28:59] because you will experience it

[00:29:00] and expect to experience other people

[00:29:02] being negative but

[00:29:04] if you're doing what you love then

[00:29:06] just don't give a shit

[00:29:08] I really agree

[00:29:10] when you were starting

[00:29:12] we went for a girls weekend we were having breakfast

[00:29:14] and it was like where's first stage just out running

[00:29:16] I thought that was very unusual but I was like

[00:29:18] check her out

[00:29:19] I was like we went out last night drinking

[00:29:21] I remember we were training for a race

[00:29:23] so you didn't drink alcohol and I was just

[00:29:26] I thought that was just so cool

[00:29:28] she was doing something for herself

[00:29:29] but I noticed this big shift in you

[00:29:31] like this sparkle was back in your eyes

[00:29:33] it was like

[00:29:34] is it weird to say that you've found yourself again?

[00:29:40] I don't think that's weird

[00:29:41] I think you're definitely hitting on something

[00:29:43] you'll know yourself I did go tea total

[00:29:46] for a few years where I didn't drink alcohol at all

[00:29:48] and I just focused on training

[00:29:49] I don't do that now

[00:29:50] I will enjoy a glass of wine

[00:29:52] I can't drink the way I used to drink

[00:29:54] but I had to do that because without

[00:29:56] going down a big long

[00:29:58] depressing route

[00:29:59] for a long time

[00:30:01] the use of alcohol and things

[00:30:03] was more just to drown out how I was feeling

[00:30:05] and drown out

[00:30:07] not just processing everything that was going on

[00:30:10] at the time but

[00:30:11] huge lack of self esteem

[00:30:13] huge lack of self confidence

[00:30:15] I've always been quite mouthy

[00:30:17] and quite brash

[00:30:18] and people's faces so people always kind of thought

[00:30:21] I was really confident

[00:30:23] and I really wasn't

[00:30:25] and sometimes when I was a teenager

[00:30:27] particularly when I was at school

[00:30:28] I wasn't always the nicest person

[00:30:29] I wasn't always nice to people

[00:30:32] that I should have been nice to

[00:30:33] and a lot of that was because

[00:30:35] of what was going on and how I felt about me

[00:30:37] so really had to take a look at

[00:30:40] just my behaviour

[00:30:41] to be honest

[00:30:42] I suppose that the paradox of being a psychologist

[00:30:46] and then seeing

[00:30:48] how psychologically unhealthy I was

[00:30:50] behaving on a

[00:30:52] regular basis was

[00:30:53] the big shift for me because

[00:30:55] I could see I was

[00:30:57] learning about coping mechanisms

[00:31:00] lack of self esteem and

[00:31:02] self identity and all these things

[00:31:04] my identity had been

[00:31:06] as my parents cared for so long

[00:31:08] and that almost

[00:31:10] was kind of how people thought about me

[00:31:12] was

[00:31:13] you were known as the girl that had

[00:31:16] double parents

[00:31:18] I was the girl

[00:31:19] that had an old mum

[00:31:20] that was our identity

[00:31:22] you know that amongst other things

[00:31:25] obviously drew us together as friends

[00:31:27] but I just

[00:31:28] I felt for so long that

[00:31:30] that had been my role and that is what I'd done

[00:31:32] and then my parents died and it was like

[00:31:35] okay so

[00:31:36] what now

[00:31:37] I kind of realised that for a long time

[00:31:40] I'd just been doing stuff to cope

[00:31:42] I hadn't been doing stuff that actually

[00:31:45] I suppose

[00:31:46] was conducive to helping me

[00:31:49] it was more the way I was coping was

[00:31:50] actually probably not helping me in the long term

[00:31:52] that was why I decided to stop drinking

[00:31:54] for quite a lot of time because

[00:31:56] I could be quite destructive when I was drinking

[00:31:58] not necessarily destructive to those around me

[00:32:00] but certainly self destructive

[00:32:02] and destructive to my health

[00:32:04] and so I didn't just drink a little bit

[00:32:06] I drank a whole lot

[00:32:08] and we know that I could

[00:32:10] drink 10-12 pints a side and still

[00:32:12] walk in a straight line and I think about that now

[00:32:15] I'm like one python and I'm

[00:32:16] you know floored and even thinking now

[00:32:19] there's sugar content in that

[00:32:20] and everything else goes along

[00:32:22] with it and I definitely

[00:32:24] once I stopped smoking in it I started

[00:32:26] exercising I thought the next thing

[00:32:28] I need to do is look at how much I'm drinking

[00:32:30] and get that under control

[00:32:31] not that I was an alcoholic but

[00:32:34] certainly I used drink as a crux

[00:32:37] more than anything else and don't get me wrong

[00:32:38] seeing when I first started exercising

[00:32:40] it started really healthy

[00:32:42] and then for a period that became

[00:32:44] my crux too and I realised

[00:32:45] that I was using exercise

[00:32:48] in the same way that I used alcohol

[00:32:50] before it was kind of my

[00:32:52] way of sort of dealing with things

[00:32:54] I've passed that and I'm on a much

[00:32:56] healthier road with it now so

[00:32:58] the time that you're kind of talking about when I saw you

[00:33:00] I think at that point yeah I was

[00:33:02] just like do you know what

[00:33:03] my life choices now are that I don't want to

[00:33:06] be hung over in my bed all day

[00:33:08] I want to go and have a good weekend with the girls

[00:33:10] of course I do but I can do that without

[00:33:12] drinking I'll go out and I'll have a good

[00:33:14] night out but in the morning I'm going to get up

[00:33:16] and I'm going to do my run because that's what I do

[00:33:18] and that's what makes me feel

[00:33:20] good is it because it's a part of you

[00:33:22] it's not something you had to do

[00:33:24] I definitely now if I go

[00:33:26] away for a weekend or going to night out

[00:33:28] I still get slimes for getting up in the morning

[00:33:30] and going for my run it makes me feel better

[00:33:32] you know it just makes it's part of what I do

[00:33:34] it's part of what makes me feel like me

[00:33:36] because I think there was that

[00:33:40] you know I'm not the girl with the

[00:33:41] ill-payments anymore that's not my life

[00:33:43] anymore and what do I do now what actually

[00:33:45] makes me happy and I think I was just

[00:33:47] really lucky that I found

[00:33:49] that in sport and as you said always

[00:33:51] kind of spamming I always knew that competing

[00:33:53] in things like that was something

[00:33:55] that kind of drove me but

[00:33:57] yeah I was dead lucky that I found it in Triathlon

[00:33:59] see this is the thing for me it's been an

[00:34:01] easier process because of my knowledge

[00:34:03] of psychology and stuff I have access to that on a

[00:34:05] daily basis but as I said before

[00:34:07] I'm a humanistic psychologist and

[00:34:09] humanists always talk about you can't control

[00:34:11] anyone else's happiness and no day else can control

[00:34:13] your happiness so the only way that you

[00:34:15] can be happy is by looking after

[00:34:17] you and being in control of your happiness

[00:34:19] and by doing that

[00:34:21] then you will have a positive influence

[00:34:23] on others right but

[00:34:25] you can't make someone happy and

[00:34:27] in the same way they can't make you happy

[00:34:29] and so it's all about you know

[00:34:30] how hierarchy needs to strive them

[00:34:33] towards self-actualisation which is

[00:34:35] the realisation of who you are

[00:34:37] and becoming the best version

[00:34:39] of you and I think that's it

[00:34:41] we all get so

[00:34:44] bogged down trying to be

[00:34:45] different things like what society

[00:34:47] has told us we should be or what our parents have conditioned us

[00:34:49] to be or you know

[00:34:50] as a woman what men expect us to be

[00:34:53] or things like that and we never

[00:34:55] really get to the point where we start thinking

[00:34:57] what about me, what does Kirsten want to do

[00:34:59] what does Kirsten want to do and

[00:35:00] that feeling of calm and that feeling

[00:35:02] of not having to care

[00:35:04] about other people's expectations

[00:35:06] and I think it's not made me a selfish

[00:35:08] person it's actually made me a better person

[00:35:11] because there is so much

[00:35:12] research that shows the more compassionate

[00:35:14] you are the happier you are

[00:35:16] and I think part of me being happy

[00:35:18] is makes me more compassionate

[00:35:20] which then makes me more happy

[00:35:22] I'm definitely not psychologically

[00:35:24] the healthiest person in the world right

[00:35:27] there's a lot going on up there

[00:35:28] but it's everybody

[00:35:30] that's why we're here

[00:35:32] that's why Scotland's Women podcast this year

[00:35:35] and it's okay

[00:35:37] it's okay that's the thing

[00:35:39] it's okay and that's it

[00:35:40] and it is okay and I think

[00:35:42] when they first talked about

[00:35:45] mental health they talked about hysteria

[00:35:47] and it literally meant wandering

[00:35:49] and they believed that only women were

[00:35:51] hysterical and only women were emotional

[00:35:53] and only women suffer from psychological

[00:35:55] problems and you know as much

[00:35:57] as I'm not a Freud quote or I don't like

[00:35:59] Freud but he was the first person to say

[00:36:00] well you know men can get mentally ill as well

[00:36:02] he then went on to release a whole

[00:36:04] sexist body of work but he did make

[00:36:07] that point and there's been this expectation

[00:36:09] that a woman's got to fit into so many categories

[00:36:11] that we never spend enough time

[00:36:13] maybe focusing

[00:36:14] on our happiness we're a mother

[00:36:16] we're a wife, we're a partner

[00:36:19] we're this, that or the next thing

[00:36:20] we're a career woman or we're making

[00:36:22] these choices and it's like from whatever

[00:36:24] I want to be and whatever

[00:36:26] kind of makes me happy and I still sometimes

[00:36:28] have to work on that but I think

[00:36:30] it's finding that thing so for you

[00:36:33] obviously your podcast, your art

[00:36:34] the stuff that you're doing

[00:36:37] walking those things that make you happy

[00:36:39] are so important

[00:36:40] not just for you but for those around

[00:36:42] about you as well because that's

[00:36:44] if you're happy and you're healthy

[00:36:46] then you're going to be able to

[00:36:48] have a positive influence on those around about you too

[00:36:51] they can't control them

[00:36:52] but you can have a positive influence

[00:36:55] next time on

[00:36:56] Scotland's Women

[00:36:58] I had a level of control over my body

[00:37:00] I had a level of control over my training

[00:37:02] and a level of control over my race

[00:37:04] when I was younger

[00:37:05] you hit petty men of course

[00:37:07] and you have no control

[00:37:09] I literally was like I woke up on my 41st birthday

[00:37:11] and my body had just gone mad

[00:37:14] all of a sudden I was experienced in periods again

[00:37:16] which is something I've not had to deal with

[00:37:18] in training, do you know

[00:37:19] how much more I respect women

[00:37:21] in sport now

[00:37:23] because even just training with cramp

[00:37:26] is awful

[00:37:27] it's not having that control anymore

[00:37:30] I feel like my body hates me

[00:37:32] hey!

[00:37:51] I wear stories